People are fighting on the internet!

Hi, I see you’re on the internet.  Assuming that you didn’t just get on for the first time ever today, and then somehow stumbled across this post before looking at anything else out there, you already know this:  People love to fight on the internet.  Who can blame them?  There’s a whole slew of writings and opinions that total strangers have put out there for all of us to see, and then some other total strangers have OTHER writings and opinions, and clashing is just going to happen with all that stuff floating around.  Add in the fact that it’s much easier to say nasty things about a stranger you disagree with when they’re not physically there, the fact that some people just like to fight or be mean for fun, and the fact that picking on someone is much easier than having a well-reasoned discussion and possibly allowing for differing points of view, and BAM!  Internet Fight!

Since this isn’t my first day on here, I already know all this, but a specific internet fight prompted this post.  With the disclaimer that I don’t actually know the people involved, I’m linking these posts: (Note – they’re both from Fetlife, which is full of the whole range of writing from the terribly insightful and personal to the “Rawr!  Look at me!” and everything in between. More importantly, you can’t actually read either unless you’re already over there.  Which is why I don’t bother to post anything there.)

The first one reads, to me, like someone trying to sort out her feelings and why they exist and what to do with them:

I will admit that I have a soft spot for this type of personal writing, since I do so much of it myself.  This first writer is identifying herself as a “Warrior Submissive”, her main points being that years of heartbreak have made her distrustful, and that ultimately if someone does show himself to be worthy of trust, that will make her relationship all the better.  She also seems to be getting at the fact that she can be strong, and protective, and capable on her own.  I know, paraphrasing what I got out of a post is cheating.  But my point is that this is obviously an intensely personal reflection from someone trying to sort out some very difficult things.  There are little particular things I’d disagree with myself, but the writer may also disagree with some of it in a year, or five, or next month, or whenever.  My disagreement with little personal thoughts is moot, since this was not written to tell me how to behave but to get a thought process out.  And a lot of it I do agree with, though I’ll get to that later.

The second piece was written specifically as a takedown of the first:

This writer starts off by calling the first one out, and saying that she’s Doing It Wrong.  She highlights one tiny bit from the original, where Warrior Sub says that she wants the Dominant to prove he is worthy, over and over again, for as long as they are together.  This is called out, fairly harshly, as passive-aggressive.   The rest of the post is actually a well-reasoned argument for being a Knight Submissive, meaning that one you have found a King to serve, that’s it – the proving and trust parts are done.

I agree with a lot of this, too, but I’ll reserve my comments for later.  See, the thing is, I was prompted to write about this particular internet fight mainly because it reeks of the BDSM version of the “my cunt is better than your cunt” game I was discussing recently.  And then the comments . . . there are comments.  Plenty of support for the Warrior, and also plenty of support for the Knight.  If everyone could just CHILL THE FUCK OUT, that alone would make it clear that both s-types have heaps of people that identify with them and also heaps of D-types that want a partner of one sort or the other.  That should be where the vast variety of sexual and loving expression are appreciated, since however you identify yourself, someone will want what you have to offer.  Not on the internet, though!  The comments I was most struck by were the ones from D-types tearing down the Warrior’s very personal post saying that everything she had to say was damaging to newer girls (and they’re always girls, right?  Never mind the submissive men I know and how they might feel about any of this.) since they would all flock to her post and think that’s exactly how they should approach the whole thing.  And that feminism was tainting her point and has no place here.  Because that’s what feminism is about, right?  Reading someone’s journal entry and deciding you have to follow it to the letter rather than thinking for yourself.

There you are, a whole bunch of things bound to make me want to reply and me over here picking apart my own feelings.

People writing about how they feel and what they’ve figured out about how shit works for them is awesome, kinky or not.  We should all do that.  Finding someone you can relate to who matches you sexually and can offer what you need is awesome, and I love seeing that.  We should all have that.  But since I took the time to write about this in an arena separate from the original posts, I obviously have more to say.  I just want to say it without people piling on and telling me that if I don’t live as if I were in a Gor novel I’m not worthy of the kind of love and sex I want.

I could relate to the Warrior’s point about how hard it is to trust anyone after being hurt over and over.  And I’m not just talking about shitty boyfriends and husbands.  I’m also talking about those D-types who have been so experienced and so good at everything they do and then somehow magically forget to consider me as anything other than a RealDoll.  I’m looking at you, dude who forgot to mention that he wanted anal play and then shoved a finger up there while I was blindfolded.  And you, dude who was watching out for me so I could get drunk at the party without worrying about creepers and then decided it was okay to fuck me without a condom once I was drunk enough.  Oh!  And dude who decided that since I was up for a spanking I’d be up for a full-on incest/molestation scene – that shit you were saying sure was a surprise!  How about dude who decided I would like having my knickers shoved in my mouth?

Yeah, I know, Sanguine is venting.  But I’m venting with a point here.  Never did I say to any of you (to be clear, these are all different dudes) that you could just do whatever you wanted to me.  You’re all so experienced, and yet none of you thought that negotiating these things beforehand would be a better way of approaching them.  Would I say no?  If you thought I would, then clearly you are aware that some of us aren’t just the perfect girls who will do whatever you want.  If you need that, it’s out there, but it’s not me.  My point being that it’s not just bad boyfriends who make us sad that cause trust issues.  Sometimes it’s the ones who are so opposed to those of us who want to feel safe before trust is offered that they are actively making us feel less safe.  You’re not teaching us to be better at submitting.  You’re trying to use us in ways that guarantee that we will never want to submit to you, ever.

Those guys don’t read this blog, though, and even if they did they would just laugh at me and move on to the next toy.  I have other things to keep my mind occupied.

The really important thing to me, and possibly to the Warrior woman, though I don’t know her, is that as much as those TPE-or-GTFO guys want to think that’s the One True Way it isn’t.  Yes, I can be okay with a world that contains them, I just don’t want them anywhere near me.  Let me get back to that One True Way thing, though, since that’s where all that vitriol toward Warrior woman came from.  Again, there isn’t one.  Really!  I mostly want to make her a cup of tea and talk about Sir a bit.  How I actually can say “I have trust issues” or “This is a limit” or “This is a trigger” or “I got hurt in this particular way and I want You to know about it” or “I still have some trust issues” or “Please be patient with me” and ALL of those things are heard.  And so far, when it has come up that there’s some friction, it really does get worked out.  And by “worked out”, I don’t mean,”I learn to shut up and behave”, I mean, “I get my input taken seriously and then because I am being listened to I have a chance to work through my side of it and then I end up trusting him a bit more.”

For me, this approach is so brilliant because it means I get to do a lot of the things I’ve wanted to without ending up hurt by someone who is more interested in owning a woman than he is in showing a woman that she can let all her desires out.  Not “I get to do whatever the fuck I want and then since I’m wearing some leather I can pretend I’m kinky” (that was one of the many accusations against Warrior – that she’s not kinked since the feelings she was writing about can only exist in vanilla-land.) but “I get to really explore my own limits because Sir cares about me enough that he will not hurt me or ignore my needs.”

Want an example?  I hate service for the sake of service.  I rebel against the idea that it’s my job to cook or clean or whatever just because I’m the lady.  (Yes, I mean service in a submissive context, but it’s funny how the guys that hold these views tend to see D/s as also being a convenient gender binary.)  If I started any level of relationship with anyone and was immediately told to take on all the cooking/cleaning/whatever non-sexual tasks needed doing I would walk away.  But now, since I’m not being told “make me a sandwich, bitch!” I get really excited about cooking or making tea or whatever I can do to make sure Sir is comfortable and happy.  I want to offer my domestic skills, rudimentary as they may be, because I feel the need to serve as well as I can.  This leads to me wanting to be better at cooking and such because then I can offer more, and so on.  Just one example, but it’s one of many that show that if us wary creatures can indeed find someone who makes us less wary we can be good, not just for them but for ourselves. If I were one day in a position to take on all the housework and such, I would be happy to do it not because it’s a place I’d been forced into but because it’s a place I would have chosen.

I’m only going to ramble more if I go on, so I’ll stop.  I understand all of Warrior’s issues, and I do identify with not being the “Good Girl” a lot of people think we should be.  I also understand that if someone shows up willing to work on those issues and slowly gain trust, we can be Good Girls for them.  The people out there who just want to belittle us for our thought processes and difficulties can go to Hell. That is all.



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